Tuesday, May 23, 2006
Why I date with a view toward marriage
At some point, formerlyanonymous asked me why I always date with a view towards marriage. He/she (at one point, I decided formerlyanonymous was a 'he' but I can't recall any basis for that assumption now) suggested it put too much pressure on me and on the relationship. So, here's my answer:
The reason I date with a view toward marriage is because I didn't always and it was bad. When you date just for the sake of dating, and you don't date people you would only consider for marriage, in the end you can only reach one of two conclusions:
1. You break up, and one or both of you end up hurt; or
2. You don't break up and you end up settling for someone you shouldn't have been with in the first place and you eventually lose a part of what makes you you.
I've done the dating for the sake of dating and enjoying it thing many many times. In more than one case, I ended up hurt. In too many cases, I hurt others. I don't mind getting hurt as much as I hate hurting other people. I mean, don't get me wrong - being on the wrong end of the hurting stick stings, and sometimes it even leaves whiplash bruises, but, the fact that I've hurt some really amazing, fantastic, wonderful, fabulous guys . . . well, that actually makes me physically ill if I think about it too much. It's hard to know that the next girl they date has the burden of getting over whatever muck or tiretracks I left on the guy, and I've been privy to the knowledge that some of the guys I've broken up with have had a much harder time opening up to love the next time around because of me. I genuinely believe I'll always bounce back (although recently I realized that that's not quite exactly true as past relationships haunting my most recent one), but I don't have the confidence that everyone else always will. And, really, who wants to play Catherine to someone's Heathcliff?**
I've also settled into relationships that never should have happened. Eventually (obviously) they all ended (obvious because I'm still single, not obvious because such relationships always end). In the process, I often sacrificed a little of myself, sometimes temporarily but sometimes permanently. Whether it's simply a loss of innocence, or its the more painful lesson of not trusting people with my heart, or worse, it's that I was willing to sacrifice other relationships or beliefs or things that make me happy for the sake of that particular relationship, I've taken lessons away from each that I wish I hadn't. I wish I would have stayed the purer, better me. But, I didn't. Of course, I'm not someone who goes around saying, "Wow, I have no regrets in life!" I do - first, I have those regrets that come when you've hurt someone and second, I have the regrets that come when you give up the good parts of yourself. Now, did I learn from each of those things? Yes. But that doesn't mean I don't regret the pain those lessons necessitated.
Okay, I'm babbling. I'm super tired and have to go soon, so that's my answer. So, the short of it is - I've done the dating for dating's sake, and I think it's caused more pain than it caused fun and I while I enjoyed it at the time, I'm not sure I understand what the point to it is. So, I date with at least a distant eye to whether if I ended up falling in love with someone, they would be someone I would have wanted to fall in love with because eventually I hope that falling in love will lead to marriage for me, because I believe in marriage and want to be married.
Wow... now, imagine this: I just said that entire paragraph in my head without taking a breath! Good thing I type fast (even if not always well!). Okay, enough on this topic. Sometime later, probably not today afterall, I'll write about what makes someone a Christian (only because Baby Sis asked me to) and about the whole non-Christians being anti-Christian issue, and then about the ridiculousness of the religious right (again!), and probably something about the immigration issue. But, that all has to wait because I need to go away for a few hours.
** Reference is to Wuthering Heights, for those who haven't read the book.
Special note to JC: Whenever I think of WH, I want to sing the song from Kate Bush that Kelly lent me that time I had to do a class presentation on WH, but I can never remember the lyrics, so I found them on the internet just now - this way you can sing along with me in spirit. (You were in that class, right? I don't even remember what class it was even, but I feel like you were definitely in it...)
The reason I date with a view toward marriage is because I didn't always and it was bad. When you date just for the sake of dating, and you don't date people you would only consider for marriage, in the end you can only reach one of two conclusions:
1. You break up, and one or both of you end up hurt; or
2. You don't break up and you end up settling for someone you shouldn't have been with in the first place and you eventually lose a part of what makes you you.
I've done the dating for the sake of dating and enjoying it thing many many times. In more than one case, I ended up hurt. In too many cases, I hurt others. I don't mind getting hurt as much as I hate hurting other people. I mean, don't get me wrong - being on the wrong end of the hurting stick stings, and sometimes it even leaves whiplash bruises, but, the fact that I've hurt some really amazing, fantastic, wonderful, fabulous guys . . . well, that actually makes me physically ill if I think about it too much. It's hard to know that the next girl they date has the burden of getting over whatever muck or tiretracks I left on the guy, and I've been privy to the knowledge that some of the guys I've broken up with have had a much harder time opening up to love the next time around because of me. I genuinely believe I'll always bounce back (although recently I realized that that's not quite exactly true as past relationships haunting my most recent one), but I don't have the confidence that everyone else always will. And, really, who wants to play Catherine to someone's Heathcliff?**
I've also settled into relationships that never should have happened. Eventually (obviously) they all ended (obvious because I'm still single, not obvious because such relationships always end). In the process, I often sacrificed a little of myself, sometimes temporarily but sometimes permanently. Whether it's simply a loss of innocence, or its the more painful lesson of not trusting people with my heart, or worse, it's that I was willing to sacrifice other relationships or beliefs or things that make me happy for the sake of that particular relationship, I've taken lessons away from each that I wish I hadn't. I wish I would have stayed the purer, better me. But, I didn't. Of course, I'm not someone who goes around saying, "Wow, I have no regrets in life!" I do - first, I have those regrets that come when you've hurt someone and second, I have the regrets that come when you give up the good parts of yourself. Now, did I learn from each of those things? Yes. But that doesn't mean I don't regret the pain those lessons necessitated.
Okay, I'm babbling. I'm super tired and have to go soon, so that's my answer. So, the short of it is - I've done the dating for dating's sake, and I think it's caused more pain than it caused fun and I while I enjoyed it at the time, I'm not sure I understand what the point to it is. So, I date with at least a distant eye to whether if I ended up falling in love with someone, they would be someone I would have wanted to fall in love with because eventually I hope that falling in love will lead to marriage for me, because I believe in marriage and want to be married.
Wow... now, imagine this: I just said that entire paragraph in my head without taking a breath! Good thing I type fast (even if not always well!). Okay, enough on this topic. Sometime later, probably not today afterall, I'll write about what makes someone a Christian (only because Baby Sis asked me to) and about the whole non-Christians being anti-Christian issue, and then about the ridiculousness of the religious right (again!), and probably something about the immigration issue. But, that all has to wait because I need to go away for a few hours.
** Reference is to Wuthering Heights, for those who haven't read the book.
Special note to JC: Whenever I think of WH, I want to sing the song from Kate Bush that Kelly lent me that time I had to do a class presentation on WH, but I can never remember the lyrics, so I found them on the internet just now - this way you can sing along with me in spirit. (You were in that class, right? I don't even remember what class it was even, but I feel like you were definitely in it...)
Comments:
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3. You break up, you remain friends, both of you are wiser for having had the experience, and you move on.
(You're such a girl.)
(You're such a girl.)
Okay, fair enough. I've remained friends with most of the guys I've broken up with . . . at least for a period of time, although I currently only talk to a few of them. But, it still ends up that one of us gets hurt. Sometimes it's been me, sometimes it's been him. And while we eventually do get to be really good friends without the whole extra-strings-attached thing, it sucks in the process.
And, yes, I'm a W-O-MAN. I've accepted in the past few months/years that I have some girly tendancies. Not as many as most women I know, but a few. This may be one of them.
And, yes, I'm a W-O-MAN. I've accepted in the past few months/years that I have some girly tendancies. Not as many as most women I know, but a few. This may be one of them.
# posted by 
: May 25, 2006 8:33 AM
: May 25, 2006 8:33 AM
Astonishingly enough, I wasn't in that class -- I didn't read Wuthering Heights till grad school (shhh, don't tell). That must have been Brit Novel I, right? I only took II. But remember when JG did the report on courtly love and played that power ballad? That was awesome.
# posted by : May 26, 2006 12:16 PM
: May 26, 2006 12:16 PM
That was awesome. Man, I loved our year of English majors. We had a seriously talented & fun group (of course I included talented in there for my own benefit, but it is an accurate description of everyone else!).
# posted by : May 26, 2006 12:58 PM
: May 26, 2006 12:58 PM
Yeah, I'm a guy. I think it was in our discussion over the "three day rule" and how I thought it was stupid is where you derived the impresion. ;)
I just think dating with a view toward marriage just puts a huge amount of pressure on you or the other person. I can't see how that doesn't lead to *more* hurt. I'm not saying you use someone else and hurt them. But if you say "hey, X let's go see a movie" just for company's sake, what's wrong with that?
If you're forcing a guy to be a "husband" from the first date you're going to set impossible expectations on him and yourself. Some people may not know right from the start how they feel about you (and vice versa) And sometimes it takes time for feelings to develop. Sometimes that never does. But I think the process needs to be organic. And you're going to have to break a lot of eggs to make that omelet. And I'm mixing metaphors.
I could see asking that question of yourself after being in a relationship for a couple of years and saying "where the hell is this going." But at the start? Way too soon.
I also say this as a person who is notoriously "too serious" about these sorts of things, but putting these kind of expecations out there also has the habit of intimidating the people you actually do care about and driving them away.
Now, I'm being "such a girl." ;)
I just think dating with a view toward marriage just puts a huge amount of pressure on you or the other person. I can't see how that doesn't lead to *more* hurt. I'm not saying you use someone else and hurt them. But if you say "hey, X let's go see a movie" just for company's sake, what's wrong with that?
If you're forcing a guy to be a "husband" from the first date you're going to set impossible expectations on him and yourself. Some people may not know right from the start how they feel about you (and vice versa) And sometimes it takes time for feelings to develop. Sometimes that never does. But I think the process needs to be organic. And you're going to have to break a lot of eggs to make that omelet. And I'm mixing metaphors.
I could see asking that question of yourself after being in a relationship for a couple of years and saying "where the hell is this going." But at the start? Way too soon.
I also say this as a person who is notoriously "too serious" about these sorts of things, but putting these kind of expecations out there also has the habit of intimidating the people you actually do care about and driving them away.
Now, I'm being "such a girl." ;)
# posted by : May 26, 2006 4:49 PM
: May 26, 2006 4:49 PM
This strategy may make perfect sense to you, OLS, but I can guarantee you that there is no more surefire way to scare off any guy you would *want* to hang out with more than 3-4 times than to start out with unreasonable expectations.
If you are really looking for an intelligent, humorous, laid back and (dare I say it) liberal guy, you need to chill out and let things take their course naturally.
I started every nascent relationship in college with these types of pie-in-the-sky views and couldn't get laid with a fistful of hundreds in a brothel.
If you are really looking for an intelligent, humorous, laid back and (dare I say it) liberal guy, you need to chill out and let things take their course naturally.
I started every nascent relationship in college with these types of pie-in-the-sky views and couldn't get laid with a fistful of hundreds in a brothel.
# posted by : May 27, 2006 8:52 PM
: May 27, 2006 8:52 PM
"I just think dating with a view toward marriage just puts a huge amount of pressure on you or the other person. I can't see how that doesn't lead to *more* hurt."
I agree. Forcing this question is really harsh, and I think 1-2 years is really the ideal time to consider stuff like that. I've been dumped as "not The One/marriage material" after six months--I just don't know how you *know* enough about the other person in that length of time to make those kind of determinations.
I agree. Forcing this question is really harsh, and I think 1-2 years is really the ideal time to consider stuff like that. I've been dumped as "not The One/marriage material" after six months--I just don't know how you *know* enough about the other person in that length of time to make those kind of determinations.
# posted by : May 28, 2006 4:13 PM
: May 28, 2006 4:13 PM
Notanoneither, I'm sorry you were hurt. But, I think six months is enough time to know if you don't want to pursue marriage with the other person. I agree it's not enough time to know if you *want* to pursue marriage, but I have known much sooner than 6 months that there are certain things about a guy that I'm not willing to put up with in a long-term relationship. Some are major, like jealousy, anger issues, and alcoholism. Others are less major, but still prevalent - a lack of chemisty, or just a definitive feeling. I tend to trust my instincts on whether someone's the right kind of guy for me or not.
As someone who wasted four years - more or less - on a guy I should have long before accepted and acknowledged wasn't the one, I think there are times when you know early on. There are times when you don't know, and then in a year or two you're asking whether this one's the right one or not. Each relationship is different, but at six months, I may not know that I *want* to consider marriage with a guy, but I think I generally know when I don't want to consider marriage with a guy.
And I think you should be thankful that it ended at six months instead of two years. It sucks, I know, but really, if you were going to be broken up with wouldn't you prefer it after six months instead of two years? I certainly would - that gives me an extra year and a half to move on and enjoy other relationships.
As someone who wasted four years - more or less - on a guy I should have long before accepted and acknowledged wasn't the one, I think there are times when you know early on. There are times when you don't know, and then in a year or two you're asking whether this one's the right one or not. Each relationship is different, but at six months, I may not know that I *want* to consider marriage with a guy, but I think I generally know when I don't want to consider marriage with a guy.
And I think you should be thankful that it ended at six months instead of two years. It sucks, I know, but really, if you were going to be broken up with wouldn't you prefer it after six months instead of two years? I certainly would - that gives me an extra year and a half to move on and enjoy other relationships.
# posted by : May 30, 2006 8:32 AM
: May 30, 2006 8:32 AM
I think you need to consider what you mean by dating. Because there really are at least two levels. When you first meet someone you can't know how compatible you would be, but most certainly as you get to know them you should consider what you would like to be the end result. And just remember that you can, or should be able to have friends that you know will never go beyond a certain level.
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# posted by : October 20, 2007 6:04 AM
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